Drums too loud in church?
Dec 4th, 2006 | By Matt | Category: Drum Articles
The issue of volume has plagued drummers since the first caveman bumped his head on a stalactite and heard a hollow boom and everyone groaningly clasped their hands over their ears! The thing with drums is : they are a naturally loud acoustic instrument. They command attention, which is probably why we like them so much!
So you start playing and you see the age-old reaction among the congregation holding up their hands, unfortunately not in praise to God, but to their ears to block out your awesome expressive worship to God.
The fact of the matter is, unless you’re in a church that has a good financial base, you probably have a standard acoustic kit in various stages of disrepair or even a good kit, but you still face the issue of volume being an issue and the sound engineer (if you have one of these creatures) is not your best friend!
So, because we’re caring and compassionate drummers, we try find ways of softening the audio onslaught upon the congregation’s ears to minimise the infliction of further hearing loss amongst the elderly. We stick things on the drums to dampen the sound. We shove pillows, blankets and jackets into them to stop the ringing. We move our beautiful kit as far away as possible from the offended ears of our neighbours. Some of these things do help and appease the congregation, although someone will always complain just because they can!
- In our church, people sat in the same seats all the time. I always saw the same faces in the front row. That changed when I started drumming in the worship team… -
What is the solution? Well, you could use an electronic kit but there are pros and cons to that too (an article coming up on that one).
Here are some things I have done in the past to make the drums a little more bearable for some:
- dampener rings
- tissue paper stuck onto the head
- pillow in the bass drum
There are other methods but none I would recommend. The problem is that when you start dampening acoustic drums, you begin to “choke” the sound that is meant to come out. The drums don’t sound like they should and neither do you!
Then, if dampening the drum doesn’t help, you can also try playing with different sticks. Thinner, lighter sticks inherently produce less volume than thicker ones. Brushes, flares and wooden tips can also be used, depending on the circumstances.
There is one more factor in the equation that has substantial impact on the issue of volume…in fact, there would be no volume if it weren’t for this one thing : You! Yes, the drummer is ultimately responsible for the volume of the kit! You alone are in control of the booming.
Remember that volume is a real thing that can affect the effect! Take care in your playing. Be practical and considerate. Try different techniques or methods where volume and dynamics compliment as opposed to conflict. Speak to other drummers in other churches and glean what you can from their experiences.
Keep it real…
Oh, I found these links online today which I thought made sense:
- The Drums Are Too Loud!
- Let the drums be heard
* The Christian Drummer site links to the above sites as a guide for information to the related topic. The Christian Drummer is not affiliated with the sites in any way and does not endorse the sites/products/opinions as part of The Christian Drummer site or ethos. It’s merely for your reference/pleasure/research.
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I think an easy solution is to develop the ability to hit (touch) the drums and cymbal’s very lightly, (instead of one size fits all heavy hitting-like it or lump it). When children learn to draw and write, at first they grip the crayon or chalk very tightly and press hard. But eventually they learn how to relax, develop a mature pencil pinch grip and are able to write on paper without punching holes through it!!
Also if theres persistent complaints about drum noise I’d say take it seriously instead of adopting a “stuff them” attitude and ignoring those who find it less easy to accept “loud” drums (or any drums for that matter) as easily as us drummers might. Engage in prayerful dialogue, look at what the bible says about loud sounds in praise and worship music; listen to some biblical teaching on drums in worship (EG from Dean and Lisa Mitchum) and try to share that. Its usually a simple cultural preference, antagonistic to drums, that promotes the strong anti drum mindset. I once was in a worship and praise workshop where the leader (an oboeist) kept commenting, literally every few minutes, “we must be careful with the drums”, “you have to keep the drums under control…..” His musical tenedencies and his social and cultural background had made him hostile to drums and rhythms as if they were scary. But be patient, as far as possible avoid confrontation and schism, keep looking for God’s grace, if all the musician’s and worshippers in the fellowship are genuinely Christ centred and focussed these cultural differences will resolve themselves eventually. Either that or you’ll get cliquiness, divisions and church split’s. When there is unity God commands His blessing.
The Lords sense of timing is far superiour to ours!!
I posted yesterday about hearing what the Bible says about loud sounds in worship. Today, our worship leader began by reading psalm 150. When he read the verses about cymbals he says “worship him with SOFT cymbals..hmm; worship Him with..QUIET cymbal’s?? Huh? Is that right!? NO!! Worship Him with LOUD and RESOUNDING cymbals Yes indeed!!
Definitely! There is a time and place for loud and soft. The skill comes in knowing where and when!
hi,
need some help and advice. i am trying to solve the sound for a small church. i have just changed the speaker to pv’s and already the sound is much better. The problem is that i have a young lady drummer. As soon as she starts playing i have to bring all the levels for the vocals and instruments up (very high) to hear anything. the place is small +- 100m2. we are adding a 1.8m glass box around the drums with the top open.
i am wanting to mike the drums as i beleive hopefully that will give me more control
i need to know;
1) if i remove the front skin of the kick drum will that help
2) add some more pillows
3) or even if i remove the skins on the bottom of the toms
4) the snare seams far to loud
5) i noticed somebody stuck tape on the drums (good or bad)
i like loud music as i am use to doing open air music. there i have to mic the drums otherwise the drummer battles to get anywhere
now my biggest problem
(not to offend the drummer or hurt her ego)
or should i go for a open air church?
help please
Hi Johan,
Thanks for commenting. I’ll answer as best I can.
Drums, acoustically, naturally are louder than most instruments and do affect the levels on sound mixing in a church setting.
Here is how you can completely kill a kit, however you will be compromising on the sound quality of the kit:
- remove the front head of the bass drum and shove some blankets and pillows in there
- place a thin cloth (like a drying up cloth from your kitchen) over the snare, that will dampen the sound completely
- play with flares or blasticks (SEE THIS LINK).
Even lighter, thinner sticks (like a size 7A) can help
- sticking paper towel (or toilet paper!) on the drums (toms) will dampen the heads and reduce overall volume and ‘booming’ noise. Not the best solution but an effective one where volume/sound is an issue
That will effectively kill the sound of the kit. The drummer may not like it but if volume is an issue, that may help. I don’t recommend it myself as the drums are meant to be heard as they were made to sound.
Tape on the drums can dampen the vibrations and cause less echo on the shell.
Micing the kit can help but not if the drums are already too loud as the whole band will have to be made louder too and you get a ’sound spiral’ which just goes higher and higher!
I do not see or hear the difference of perspex (or other) sheeting in front of the kit. You may as well go the whole way and box them in completely to get any real reduction in sound volume.
Hope that helps! Let me know what you decide to do!
Lots of sound advice here, now if only I could actually find a Christian drummer for my church worship band to play our lovely shiny neglected drumkit I’d be all set.
We’ve had this problem with drummers in the past (when we actually had drummers, before they became a threatened or extinct species) and found that there are no easy solutions. Clearly hitting them more softly is one options and we found that some of our drummers were able to do that, some weren’t and some refused to for “tone” reasons.
Now, I play lead guitar and that doesn’t sound totally silly to me because I know I can get a vastly different tone depending on how I attack the strings and I know that some sounds I simply cannot get without driving the amp. However, I have the luxury of a master volume dial.
Therefore, it would seem that the only absolutely perfect solution to the problem of not being able to control drum volume is to do away with the kit and invest about 2,500 quid in one of those electronic jobbies.
Which of course, gives you the problem that many drummers don’t like them (not to mention the cost!)
We have a screen now but I’ve yet to see if it makes a difference, simply because, in the whole of London, there is not one Christian drummer. Oh well
Drummers can be a tricky breed! I hope you find one soon! Sorry I can’t help, I am too far from London…
hi,
thanks for all the advice. we have replaced all the speakers to pv scorpions and finally now i can control the sound better. For the drums we made a box with a 500mm gap at the top and a 500mm entrance with 7mm solid glass. We will be trying it this weekend but the test we have done without the drummer you can already hear a big change in volume. we asked another drummer to try and he said the drums now inside the box is very load (to load) so that might force the drummer to play softer.
You know i find this interesting. i have just installed 4 pv 200 watt rms speakers with a 200 watts per channel with a head powering the 2 pv’s as monitors in a 100m2 building that can house say +- 150 people and many time some of the music team cant hear themselves.
Sorry i meant this i find interesting;
Jesus preached to thousands and he didnt have any pv’s or amp. What are we doing wrong?
Once we have the drums setup i will report back. Who knows mabey you guys in London can take some advice from us and have some christian drummers. I mean your Lions will be taking a beating from our Springboks
Hey Johan,
Thanks for letting me know what you guys eventually did.
Jesus probably had a really loud voice!
…”Go Bokke!”
Hi Matt,
and then the score was 60 -0, not sure what happened to the England……………
I am not sure what to do. i would say the sound is 30% down but my problem is not so much the other drums but more the kickdrum. i am not a drummer but maybe you can help me.
Why when she is playing is there so many double beats with the kick drum
b(long) b(long)bs(short) b b b bs bss
the b is for a longish hard beat and the bs is for kinda if the kick pedal bounces back. i am not sure if you understand what i am trying to say?
isnt the purpose of the kick drum to keep the beat?
Um, not sure I understand. Do you mean the sound coming from the bass drum itself or do you mean the sound you picking up on your sound desk?
Ask your drummer to show you what she is playing.
The purpose is to provide the backbeat for the rhythm you are playing on the rest of the kit but is not limited to that role exclusively.
Hi all. I’m not a drummer, but I’m trying to help out on a drum-related matter.
We have a fairly typical church - maybe 80 m from end-to-end, mostly brick or stone, vaulted roof. We did a week-long holiday club in the summer for the kids, and got a band together. The drummer was so loud that my guitar amp was less than 2 metres from his head, he was about 15m from the singers, and we could hear nothing except drums, and he couldn’t hear me. We eventually got him in-ear foldback, which helped, but he was stuck w-a-y in the corner by the altar, and the rest of us were 15m away - not ideal.
Anyway, we are looking to buy a drum kit for the church, and are concerned about the volume. Are some kits quieter than others? From reading the comments above, those plastic screens do not work - or do they? I’ve seen them almost everywhere - the local evangelical church, the Big Top stage at Spring Harvest, so surely they do work? I like the idea that the drummer hears it so loud, that he quietens down, by the way, our sound guy said with in-ear foldback, that’s the easy way to get the drummer to turn down - turn him up in the foldback mix!
Cheers,
Alistair
Hi Alistair,
It’s a pity the drummer had to be so far away from the rest of the team. I remember playing once in a hall with a tin roof, for a kids camp. I tried to play as quietly as I could but the hall just reverberated everything and the roof didn’t help much either!
Did they drummer not try to do anything to perhaps dampen the sound of the kit? What about using flares/blasticks instead of normal drumsticks? Um, what about just playing softer…?
Moving on…
Some kits can be quieter than others, it depends on the size of the drums and how they are tuned. I cannot say from experience which kits are quieter. A lot really does depend on how skilled the drummer is at being sensitive in his/her playing.
Screening may give the sound engineer relatively more control over the sound of the kit but you will notice that screening is used in conjunction with good micing of the kit. Kits that are simply screened, in my opinion, sound worse and ‘muddy’.
Yeah, you can turn up what the drummer hears so he plays quieter but then he goes home with no hearing!!
Thanks for the input!
Matt
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the swift reply.
The guy was a young kid, very enthusiastic about everything! We did get him some blastick-type , but he was still loud! Interestingly, we do have another band in our church that has a drummer, a much older fellow, and he manages OK without drowning everyone out - and he’s stage centre. I might get a chance to have a word with him one night this week…
This seems like a finely balanced problem. The size and tuning of the drums, the player, the foldback, micing, etc.
I’m also interested in the comment (I must have seen this elsewhere on the site) about needing a decent PA if we were to use an electronic kit. I think our kit is OK, the sound guy certainly knows his stuff on the old-fashioned (pre-rock) kinda church sound system stuff, and we have got a pair of nice Mackie active monitors and a 24-channel (I think) desk, all good tech specs.
I can see several advantages to an electronic kit - volume control, less mic set up (if micing is used), no sounds spill, variety of sounds (young drummer mentioned above didn’t want to play one song this year because it he couldn’t get the synth drum sound). Oh, for cons, I guess it depends on whether our players can adapt to them - and what we get at entry-level prices might be poorer quality than an acoustic drum kit. It’ll have to be sturdy.
Hi Matt,
just a report back on my issues. The screen have made a difference (we used 6mm glass 2m high) the drummer also plays softer as it is flippin loud inside the box. We are not there yet as i want to mic up the set and provide drums on the monitors as well. My theory is that if the drums will come thru the house as well it will sound better.
A pity about the box as i am use to doing open air meetings and interesting is that if i don’t mic up the drums the drummer complain as he has to hit the drums very loud to be heard. Not sure if you know Durbs but i use to do a lot of open air meeting at the Workshop with a 1000w pa and after a while even the pa gets drowned out by the noise of cars people etc. No mics on the drums then all you see is a drummer sweating it to be heard.
i also had a good look at that video you have when you interviewed the guy in SA ,i suggest Alistair must look at it as he will learn from it. Cant seem to find it maybe you can post the link Matt
Younger drummers do tend to be slightly more ‘volume-unaware’ in the church, it’s the sad role models they have in worldly drummers (especially young up-and-coming-I-got-attitude drummers). Not all younger drummers, but most, I think fall into this volume predicament.
Drum kits are, by nature, louder than what most folk in a church would like to hear, and do pose headaches for the sound guy! But, properly mixed, properly mic’ed, the kit can be a beautiful asset to the sound ensemble on stage if played with a little bit of sensitivity and skill.
Again, where volume and control are issues, I still recommend a good electronic kit. Go all out and you won’t regret it. The Roland TD-20 is a fantastic choice, albeit a pricey one! Your drummers will not have much adapting to do and they will feel like they’re playing any other acoustic setup. There are many advantages to the electronic kit (may I add - quality electronic kit, not the cheap ones for £400) that can greatly and positively affect your worship team and overall sound in your church.
At the end of the day, you have to find what works for you, your church building, your pastor/elder/minister and the worship leader.
Hope that helps, thanks again!
Hey Johan
Thanks a lot for letting us know! The link to the video is here : Drums in a booth >>>
Hi all,
Thanks for the link - I will check it out later (I’m about to start work).
We have a very limited budget - I think only £500 to spend - is it worth buying an electronic kit at this price range? Can anyone recommend any particular acoustic OR electronic kits _below_ this price range?
The TD-20 looks fantastic - and gets great reviews, from what I saw, but it’s _way_ out of our price range. I guess at the lower end ofhte market, we don’t get that kind of performance.
It depends what you’re willing to compromise on. With a cheaper kit (electronic) you have to compromise on sound sample quality (very synthy-sounding drums) and ‘feel’ i.e. it won’t feel like a real kit.
Carl Albrecht writes a very article on drums and the issue of volume, read it here : “PLAYING TO THE ROOM: A DRUMMER’S PERSPECTIVE”. You may have to scroll down a bit to get to the article. Well worth reading through!
I just ran across this site. Very cool. I’ve been playing in church for over 3 years now. Initially, we had Roland V drums, which worked very well for controlling stage and house volume. In May of 2006 we went to acoustic drums, and put them in a Clearsonic enclosure. Plexiglass front and commercial fabric covered insulation in back and on top. This works exceptionally well for controlling the sound level, but as mentioned in another post, it is EXTREMELY loud in the box. The only downside is having to use headphones or in-ears. You could use a traditional monitor setup, but you would probably go deaf pretty quick. Another drawback is communication. The other player on stage need to understand that you are completely isolated, and any communication that does not come thru the monitors, the drummer will not hear. This led to a few embarrassing moments early on, until our music minister got used to giving me visual cues.
Hey Greg, thanks very much for that info. Sounds like you guys took your soundproofing quite seriously! Stay in touch!
I play in a fairly large new church. Square room with very high ceiling. They had been using some roland older electronic drums and they were not triggering, especially the snare where the trigger was worn down. We talked about acoustic drums. At one large event we held an impromptu sound check ‘during’ the event at a good time (it was a during a breakfast time). I did not know about the sound check and had left temporarily and missed it. It came time for the couple of songs the worship team did for the event, and the drums were feeding back terribly. It turns out a gnd switch on a floor gang box had gotten moved to the wrong ground setting. After that expeirience I got some good support built up by a church elder to bring in acoustic drums. I brought in a set of Gretsch with an 18″ bass drum and small toms (9, 10, 16)
It sounded great. There was positive comments by the worship team leader, and the pastor. The trouble was I needed the drums for another activity so brought in a set of very large Pearl Pro-DX (not made anymore I think). I thought they would fill the room with a good sound. I had to dampen them down. Now I was getting some bad response from our bass player. She mentioned they were sort of overwhelming her. After that I found a new Gretsch set, Catalina Maple. I brought in those. I did not want to use the original Gretsch set I had brought in because I needed it for a Big-Band band I play with (they sound super with that, the little Gretsch set that is). Ifound out the little Gretsch set I first brouht into the church is:
Catalina Elite series that was available back in 2001. These were 6-ply mahogany shells with high gloss see thru lacquer finishes, a step above blackhawk. Todays equivilent is the catalina mod, rock, and jazz series.
So I saw a good price and bought another set called Gretsch Catalina Maple. Slighty larger drums :
6 x 14 Snare Drum;
8 x 10 Tom Tom;
9 x 12 Tom Tom;
14 x 14 Floor Tom;
16 x 16 Floor Tom;
18 x 22 Bass Drum;
As for cymbals, I brought in a pair of Zildjian ZXT 14″ HH I am not super happy with but the price is right. A brilliant finish Zidjian 16″ medium crash over 15 years old, an old 18″ paiste, even older and a nice sounding Sabian 20″ XS ride.
I think we are doing ok. I am using light sticks and I am very soft playing drummer. In fact I have been accused on many occasions thru my life (I am 49 and played since age 9) of playing much too quietly.
I am still bothered though by the sound level on the platform. I think our poor bass player is still a little uncomfortable at the sound. I think the problem is no longer a volume issue but rather the intensity of the acoustic wave. We have no plexi sheild nor drum mikes either just to note.
The interesting thing is, just before this change to real drums, our backup drummer was present at an evening service and afterward came up to me and was estatic about how well me and the bass player were working together. I feel like we’ve lost some of that since going to real acoustic drums because I just cannot hear the bass as well.
In the end I am now sort of wishing I could go back to electronic drums but they would have to be very good ones. In fact I would perfer to mix in actual real cymbals as they are not the problem. Cymbals do not produce the intense acoustic wave like the drums.
Real cymbals I think fit very well into worship.
Everyone seems happy with the real drums and cymbals though and I would not even dare to mention pulling out the old electronic set again much less asking to spend 5k on a much better electronic set.
We also had an issue with electronic drums where the drums were never loud enough coming out of the monitors. We would have the sound person nearly max them out to get them to heard by the worship team on the platform out of the monitors. But the sound person would often turn down the drums out of the house PA so low there was not much of the drums even heard by the congration.
I think in the end after all this I believe a very good electronic set might be the wiser thing. But in defense of real acoustic drums, I think one positive step is to play tastefully and softly. That of course is not so easy to do on real drums and still get a cool sound. From what I have read, it sounds like the boxing-the-drummer-in type thing is getting good reports. Add some good mikes and a good sound engineer and I suspect it comes out nice.
Essentially, I need to use very small drums that are musically good sounding. A very good set would be the top level Gretsch drums in the small toms and 18″ bass drum. And use the top shelf cymbals like Zildjian A and K customs or Sabian hand hammered.
But I am afriad a lot of money must be spent with either choice, acoustic or electronic.
Anyone know of a good deal on some vdrums ? All seriousness aside, if I had the money or the church agreed (the acoustic set presently is mine but I leave it in the church), I would go with ‘USA Customer’ maple Gretsch with small toms and 18″ bass drum. Then a mix of Zidljian customer A or K and Sabian Hand Hammered cymbals. Use some hickory 7A sticks and maybe add a little pillow in the bass drum and a drummer who plays softly and it would sound just fine I think.
anyone know of a good deal on some very nice V drums ?
Jim,
Have you considered an acoustic enclosure? Plexiglas in from, acoustic panels on the back and top? Our church, Highview Baptist in Louisville, KY, uses these. They work great, keeping down the sound level on stage, and allowing the use of acoustic drums. You can purchase ready made enclosures (which is what we did, but they tend to be expensive) or you could actually build it permanently or semi permanently into the stage. After using Rolands in our church for a couple of years, then moving to the acoustics in the enclosure, I would hate to go back to the Rolands.
Peace,
Greg
This probably isn’t going to be very popular with some here, but in many (not all) cases here, what’s really needed is the drummer learning to play with a more sensitive touch, but still groovin’. At our church, we have 4 drummers (myself included). We have two venues, both of which have a plexiglass shield around the drums with a top. We play with headphones. The result?
1. Guys WAY overplay volume-wise to be heard (and what is heard is muddy and sounds like it’s coming from down the street.
2. Except for the hats and the ride, *every* cymbal is cracked (and there are many cymbals that are unplayable laying around.
3. No one learns to play with sensitivity because you can’t in our current environment. I give it a go, but I probably am not heard and most of the stuff I play just gets lost.
Until we as drummers learn to play TO THE ROOM, we will never get away from this problem. In one sense, we have dug our own hole…and we won’t get out until WE start doing something about it.